Sincere Liars

[kokopelle]

I think I've mentioned this before, but I find the capacity for the human animal to lie to be amazing in its breadth. There are white lies, black lies, stupid lies, lies for national security, lies of omission, lies of commission, and lies for the fun of it. There seem to be good, bad and ugly lies. The really scary thing is that lies seem to out number the truth. I pondered why. Perhaps there is no such thing of truth, and all we have are shades of gray in lying. A look to nature seems to confirm this. There are elements of lying in animal mimicry and demonstrations of aggressive behavior intended to scare off other animals. Why should people be any different? We want to protect ourselves. Embracing something called "the truth" can at times be contrary to protection. Truth requires trust, and trust seems to be in the minority when it comes to human relationships.

So this brings me to end of my thoughts. We lie to protect ourselves because we don't trust, and we don't trust because... hmmm... I wonder where this goes?


Commercials... a wonderfully sincere way of lying (sometimes in an entertaining way...)

Comments

[valkyriur.livejournal.com]

There is no truth only because truth is masked by our own personal experiences.

When somebody says "love" we remember our experiences in love or lack of love. When somebody says "hate" we remember the thing we most hate. We perceive the world through glasses, colored by our own experiences, our own thoughts...

[chimerae.livejournal.com]

There's a fair amount of ape research that indicates lies are a core aspect of community. I looked around quickly for a reference on this but didn't find what I was looking for -- thie is the closest I could grab quickly. http://www.massey.ac.nz/~alock/hbook/primate.htm

A easy to understand version is dominance in apes. If a non-dominant ape feins fear in response to aggression from an alpha, then the aggression conversation doesn't have to continue to violence and the lying produces the social group rank clarification without the stress hormones from fear.

In human culture, individuals who lack the capacity to lie can't function.

[chimerae.livejournal.com]

Still can't find the monkey research, but thought you might like to see this: http://www.livescience.com/health/060515_why_lie.html

[greensh.livejournal.com]

Several years ago I was called before a tribunal to account for wrong doings against the group. Towards the end of the 'discussion' I was asked if I was only saying those things that the group wanted to hear. I replied with all frankness, "I'm not going to try to say things that you don't want to hear". While I was not being dishonest, I was shaping what I said in my role as the monkey who was projecting a fear/respect response.

Interesting stuff...

[greensh.livejournal.com]

The type of lies you describe are common in the animal kingdom, though the use of the word 'lie' does project a lot of baggage on animals. Wolf-dogs have a wide range of submission behavior that they carry over from their wolf kin. The submitting wolf acts meek and nonthreatening to a wolf who is their alpha. This does not mean that they, the submitting wolf, is alpha to everyone. The then submitting wolf can easily turn around and act very unsubmitting to others in the pack.

An example of this. Wayah will boss around Bear (her wolf-dog son) and the labradors. This "respect my authority" posture vanishes when she is confronted by her mom, Aurora. Wolves/wolf-dogs who don't know this play of 'lies' are at a horrible disadvantage in a wolf-pack.