The Witch and the Shaman

[kokopelle]

A LJ friend of mine commented on an article that compared the Shaman and the Witch. Judging the article, my friend said, "The (article's) difference is that shamans are distinguished only by their ability to astral project and lead a completely solitary existence!" and a commenter said, "Most of the pagans I know are shamans by his definition!".

The hubris of the original article was that it spoke in tones of authoritarian surety about the very large topic of shamanism. To this, I commented (slightly edited):

My feedback of "true enough" acknowledges that there are always exceptions. There are no absolutes. This is so especially true in the embrace of Shamanism. When I teach I give a little speech that goes something like this:

"The world of Shamanism is very rich and diverse. Each indigenous culture has it's own rich beliefs and practices. There are many differences between these local derivations. That said, there is also a core of general beliefs that are shared across the multitude. It is to these shared beliefs that I teach from. The result is a form of "modern" shamanism that informs and enriches the nonindigenous person.

Anything that I can share is only a broad overview of the shamanic path. There are many exceptions to what I have to share. In fact, there are exceptions to the exceptions. The only “pure” shamanic teachings would be indigenously specific. I don’t have the qualification to teach from this place. Very few people do. We in the Western world stand outside of those teachings. It is only in glimpses that we see the nuts-n-bolts of the indigenous. This is OK. What we have is enough to find our own shamanic connections to the world around us. We have enough to allowing the healing of ourselves, and in turn, we can reach out to facilitate the healing and embrace of the world around us."

I then put in my $.02 (slightly edited) about the Witch and the Shaman.

There is (almost) no difference if you look at the total breadth of each. Both paths are self-realized journeys of exploration and connection between oneself and the world as a whole. I say this as a person who has walked in the world of the Craft without committing to it.

The catch to statement of "no difference" is that there is no one-size-fits-all mold for either being a Witch or a Shaman. IMO the decision to be a Witch or a Shaman is a personal statement of intention (i.e. "I am a Witch" or "I am a Shaman") and the subsequent recognition of that role, Witch or Shaman, by those around you. A person can be called on not being a Shaman or Witch if they stray too far from the big generalities, but the landscape for those generalities is vast.

On a personal note, Shamanism, by the way I practice it, does have the wrinkle that other people recognize the person to be a shaman with a capital "S". A person can say, "I am on the shamanic path", but it is only others that can say, "That person is a Shaman". There are exceptions to this too, but this is my reality. In contrast (with BIG exceptions also!), the Witch can self-initiate,subsequently stating, "I am a Witch" with no affirming acknowledgement from others.

Comments

[valkyriur.livejournal.com]

You have a point there. Where both are self-realized journeys. I'm personally in agreement with "I practice shamanism", others decide whether a person is or not. I think that both a large part of they and us don't consider ourselves parts of each other though. Probably just a holier-than-thou complex though. ;)

[moonvoice.livejournal.com]

I see a huge different witchcraft and shamanism, simply because in shamanism I feel there is a requirement (technically, imho) to be concentrating on working towards or actually doing soul retrieval / psychopomping and soul extraction. Without that there are only shamanic techniques, but not actual 'shamanism.'

Witchcraft doesn't require any of those three aspects for someone to still be a devout and adept craft worker. But such big definitions are always going to be worlds apart for everyone.

[greensh.livejournal.com]

My comments are mostly philosphical. They are not intended to be a roadmap for a person identifying if they are a Witch or a Shaman. I believe that a mere list of techniques does not define a person as anything. I instead offer up the point that Witches and Shamans share a magical connection to the universe. The most important words in my article were:

There is (almost) no difference if you look at the total breadth of each. Both paths are self-realized journeys of exploration and connection between oneself and the world as a whole.

The premise of my "total breadth" wording is that there is no "one size fits all" mold for either the Witch or Shaman. The two paths share many methods and the two paths have many exceptions to the practices involved. The tagging or nontagging of a person by a shopping list of methods used by either path falls short when applied to enough practitioners. This is a big picture view.

I know of shamanic paths that don't put an emphasis on soul retrieval/soul extraction. I am a student in one of them now. IMO soul retrieval is one of those methods that are strongly featured some shamanic traditions and not in others. I don't feel soul retrieval is prevalent enough to say, "a Shaman must be an expert at soul retrieval in order to be a Shaman". That said, a Shaman that does not have soul retrieval expertise can be rightly disregarded as a person of power by those who expect this skill in a Shaman. (See my reply to Wulkwalker (http://greensh.livejournal.com/42268.html?thread=92444#t92444) about recognition of a Shaman)

Here's something to think about. I strongly suspect there are methods in Witchcraft that are functionally very similar to soul retrieval. While the words "soul retrieval" and "soul extraction" may exclusively shamanic jargon, the archetypical concept of restoring wholeness to a person is not the sole property of the shamanic path. It may be called something else, but the outcome is the same. When the Witch practices their methods of "soul healing" they are doing this as a Witch. When a Shaman practices soul retrieval they are doing it as a Shaman. Echoing the ability across the working labels of Witch or Shaman does not automatically make a person one thing or another.

[franciscan.livejournal.com]

As a shamanic practitioner, I do soul retrievals, working with discarnate beings, and extractions (there is no such practice that I am aware of that is "soul-extraction" unless the intent is to define depossession, which is another aspect of the practice that I do. These, however, do not define my path of shamanism. They are just how I am called to serve my community.

The one distinction of shamanism is that we choose to enter non-ordinary reality (what I call 3-D) in order to access and gain information for helping another or the community. Then we return and apply that information, or share it with others. That is basically it. Each practitioner will develop his or her own "way" of doing that, but the essential is there.

I know very gifted shamans whose contribution is being present to creation in a way that both the seen and unseen worlds can relate and be healed. These shamans do not necessarily do soul retrievals etc, but are very active in restoring balance to the planet.

Shamanism is evolving and there will, I believe, come a time in the near future when we recognize that the practice will be more about blending and merging these various techniques as we address the causes imbalances in the world.

I especially resonate to the comments that we do not declare ourselves shamans - that is for the commuity to do, or not to do. I am mistrustful basically of anyone who claims that title for themselves.

[greensh.livejournal.com]

Is there a distinction between entering non-ordinary reality and viewing non-ordinary reality?

My lovely gf has a very developed ability of "seeing" energies. She can see the intensity, behavior, and locations of energies. She accesses this information and uses it to help others. Her path is one of Witchcraft, though she is investigating the world of the shaman. She has had her ability for many years. It was not a result of being a "Witch". I know others (typically "new-age") that can access/view/experience non-ordinary reality, and have neither title (Witch, Shaman).

A second (related) question: rather than it being a unique distinction of shamans (ie nobody else has it), is the ability to enter non-ordinary reality instead something that is (very) common to those who are shamans or on the shamanic path?

[wulfwalker.livejournal.com]

I do not think this is unique to Shamanism, in the Craft we would call it "moving between the worlds". This is common to many paths, including X-tianity, when I did the evangelical thing it was called being moved or taken by the Holy Spirit. Some call it "The Rapture". I think this can be EITHER an innate or mastered ability such as what a Ceremonial Magic practitioner might do.

[franciscan.livejournal.com]

I think there is a distinction between entering and "viewing" non-ordinary reality. I am also sensitive to subtle energies and use that sensitivity in my healing practice. When I am doing this, however, I am very much in ordinary reality. For me, it is not about the ability to see auras, or other energies. It is about actually journeying into non-ordinary reality. It is har to explain this, as language falls short when it comes to discussing non-lingual reality. I would suggest that the giftedness of your girlfriend is wonderful, and pertains to "real-world" stuff, albeit, expanded real world, if that makes any sense.

The ability (or even willingness) to enter non-ordinary reality was at one time the unique propensity of the shaman. What we are seeing in these times is an amazing awakening of folks so that it is understood that we all have this ability. It is just a matter of learning how to do it, and having the confidence to know that the experience is real. It is the same with mysticism. Use to be that only the saints in whatever tradition) had the gift of mysticisn. Humankind has evolved though and the spiritual path is awakening in very profound ways among very many people.

Anybody can enter non-ordinary reality. What determines, or encourages, the shamanic path are the motives behind the journey. Shamanism is a path of service, and a commitment to personal, communal and planetry healing.

[greensh.livejournal.com]

Good answer (grin). Thank you!

[(Anonymous)]

the inability to describe a thing that has not yet been defined in a way that is accepted/understood does not negate that it exists. Try to explain colors to a person blind since birth. the ability to enter, as you put it, "non-ordinary reality"(NOR) is IMO, summed up in Dion Fortune's definition of magic: "The act of shifting consciousness at will". I believe that all things are part of a greater whole, all interconnected, and all possessing an innate energy unique to each. To "see" this on this plane (or in this reality) does not affect the deliberate act of "shifting" to view another plane. My best explanation would be a radio. some stations are more powerful than others some are weaker but to "bring them in" requires tuning or tweaking. first to pick up the signal than to refine until it can be heard without static or interference.

previous post

[wulfwalker.livejournal.com]

the post starting with "the inability to describe..." is mine, sorry I thought I was still logged in!

Re: previous post

[greensh.livejournal.com]

WHO ARE YOU???

Just kidding... (HUGS)

Re: previous post

[wulfwalker.livejournal.com]

..FEAR me, if you dare....

[moonvoice.livejournal.com]

As a shamanic practitioner, I do soul retrievals, working with discarnate beings, and extractions ... These, however, do not define my path of shamanism.

I'm not saying they're the only requirements of shamanism, or the only aspects of shamanism by a long shot. However, I do believe that in Indigenous shamanism they're some of the core aspects of what a 'shaman' does, and therefore tend to outline the difference between shamanic techniques, and the status of 'shaman' who serves his or her community.

We also have Ilkara'te (sky shamans) who are not as concerned with soul retrieval, but their techniques to preserve the weather / land / community as a whole etc. is thought to be even less common. They are most likely to be solitary, though will occasionally perform retrievals for important people such as a well known patriarch in the Vilturj line.

Should a 'shaman' however come up to me and say; 'hi, I'm a shaman, I don't know how to do soul retrieval and I'm not interested in helping others, but I DO travel to the otherworlds and it's neat!!!' (it's happened, *sigh*) then I'm going to do something akin to laughing and say 'I'm sorry, but you're not a shaman.'

There are too many 'shamans' out there who are completely unconcerned with healing or helping others, and are only self-focused, as many aspects of neopaganism encourage. It isn't right for me, it doesn't fit with the way I've been raised, and it doesn't fit what I've learnt since from some of the Indigenous Aboriginals that I've been blessed to meet on my way in life.

[wulfwalker.livejournal.com]

I see a lot of similarities between witchcraft and shamanism. both are/were culturally specific paths originally, but have grown or diversified to a complex creation with widely varying belief statements. To me, the self declaratory statement "I am a Witch/Shaman" is verbally stating intent or commitment to that general path. IMO, training and studying proceeding from that point allows focus and experience to accrue. Even those who self declare they are something does not mean that those who also walk that path will validate this.

[greensh.livejournal.com]

"Even those who self declare they are something does not mean that those who also walk that path will validate this."

Agreed. I also teach that a shaman, recognized by one tribe, is not necessarily recognized as a shaman by another tribe. Being a Shaman can be a complicated mixture of tribal lore and innate abilities. Different tribes have different requirements. The analogy would be a general of one nation's army not automatically being recognized as a general in another nation's army. What's the outcome of this? Just because your tribe recognizes you as a Shaman (capital S!), tread lightly in the outer world with proclamations of shaman-hood. A person with true shamanic person-hood will be recognized as such in as many tribes as their abilities dictate.

The same can/could be said for those who have recognition as a Witch.

What is a tribe? This is not an easy answer in the modern age. A typical person belongs to many tribes. These are based in their work, spiritual life, and play-time. I am an example of a person who walks in several tribes. In the spiritual realm I belong to a new-age tribe, pagan tribe, and holistic healing tribe. Some of these recognize my shamanic walk and others do not. That said, this does not preclude me from tapping into my shamanic path when a person of any of these tribes comes to me for advice/guidance/healing. I share what I can, do what I can, and honor them as a brother or sister.