Anniversary of Roe vs. Wade

[kokopelle]

As a guy, I don't know if I truly have a horse in this race. That said, here's my $.02. I am more in favor of pro-choice than I am in favor of pro-life. I witnessed the CHOICE part of pro-choice first hand. A dear friend of my ex-wife became pregnant during a quickie-romance thing. She had her life ahead of her, was living away from home, and had few resources. She chose to get an abortion. It seemed like the right thing to do at the time. She didn’t need a mob of protestors or an international church to tell her what was right for her. This was over 15 years ago. How does she feel now? Who knows? That's for her to decide.

In my own life I had a 'spiritual' abortion. My first wife and I had a pregnancy out of wedlock. I did the "right" thing and married her. Nine months later my daughter was stillborn. She was fully developed. The doctors couldn't figure out what happened. To be perfectly honest, I did not grieve my daughter's death. If my daughter had lived, I would have been bound emotionally to a woman who was bi-polar and very destructive. My daughter's "decision" to not come into this world allowed me to move on with my life. I've not had any children since, unless you count my adorable kitties.

In the end I do believe in the choice. IMO the higher pitched statistics that are thrown around by the pro-life people are at best murky, mostly disingenuous, and at worst, misleading. The path one goes down with the "abortion is murder" leads to comparisons of human embryos to eagle eggs. The moral decision of choice vs. murder becomes a political football with all the abiguity entailed therein. I also take some issue when the fever level of condemnation about choice is combined with the lack of support for those who heed the pro-life message. Life is not fair, but people are human, and it's a hard enough to get through life already without dispassionate, dogmatic social movements making life more miserable.

Comments

[valkyriur.livejournal.com]

I'm pro-choice, mostly. For myself, I'm pro-life. As for other people, I can voice my opinion, but I don't think I should be able to control what they do or don't do with their bodies. For them, I'm pro-choice.

[greensh.livejournal.com]

That is an excellent point. The too dogmatic application of "life is precious; abortion is murder" can lead to the embracing of dead(ly) and dangerous things. It is interesting that this mind-form is also expressed in defense of marriage. The paraphrased version would be, "the child is precious, so the adults must stay together at all costs". Some divorces are done for the reasons you mentioned - expediency and lack of maturity. Many divorces are done so with the physical, emotional or spiritual survival of one person being the driving cause. With the rate of divorces not slacking, it would seem that self-preservation can win over pundit’s dogmatic hard-line.

Sigh. Life is precious. So is a person's life, emotional sanity and spiritual integrity. I'm all for keeping dogma in the liturgical books and choice in our lives.

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

Wow. I think this is one of the best explanations I have ever heard.
Brava, my dear.
(Wandered over after greensh commented with this whole thing on my LJ about "Blog For Choice Day).
*waves to greensh, must add to friends list now*

[greensh.livejournal.com]

Do you think you must be dispassionate and dogmatic to be pro-life?

Absolutely not! This was not my intention. The individual is not a "dispassionate, dogmatic social movement". Neither is an individual a "mob of protestors or an international church". The distaste I was trying to communicate was against the dishonesty/disengenious/blahblahblah/groupthink that occurs when the pro-life philosophy, indeed any philosophy, is taken captive by a movement.

I know you are a passionate mother. You have a strong personal opinion on this topic. I completely honor your having this opinion. I have my own opinion and my own life experience. The information I posted in my blog was perhaps more than anybody previously knew about that part of my life. I hope this clarifies my statements!

thank you

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

That said: These are my standards. Nobody else has to live by them but me. I don't protest, harangue or bully. I quietly vote for the candidates I think best represent my worldviews, and I live my life the best I can -- just like the women who choose abortion do.

I seriously hope, wish, and pray that more pro-life people are like you.
Thank you for such a beautiful personal truth.
No one should force their personal views on anyone -- and that includes everyone. Just because I'm pro-choice doesn't mean I don't value life. And as Neil Gaiman said in American Gods: "I believe in a woman's right to choose and a baby's right to live."

[greensh.livejournal.com]

As usual, you paused me to think and consider. You correctly pointed out that an element of CHOICE is the choosing to have a child, at all costs. I thank you for pointing out this aspect of the debate. It shows that nobody 'owns' the words used in debate.

The sad part of the abortion debate is that both "political" sides of the argument paint the other in terms of pro-death. The pro-choice group points to the cold heartless moralists that see no room for an abortion, even if it is to save the life of the mother. The pro-life group points to the opposing raving murderers who live only to terminate babies' lives. These extreme statements are used to compare and contrast philosophies at the risk of identifying actual people with these monstrous labels.

The secular laws and liturgical edicts aside, much of life is a personal experience. Life is a choice. The framing of the abortion issue in terms of "pro-choice" or "pro-life" dishonors the concepts of both choice and life.

[qassandra.livejournal.com]

The path one goes down with the "abortion is murder" leads to comparisons of human embryos to eagle eggs.

The funny thing is that I'm both vegan and pro-choice. Just as I respect animals' rights to their own bodies by not eating of them, I believe that our society must respect the rights of human women to control our own bodies.

[greensh.livejournal.com]

Agreed. This is my issue with a message coming from a "culture war"/political direction. One has to walk the walk if one is going to talk the talk.

[valleysailor.livejournal.com]

I will continue to be pro-choice until every single child is wanted and child abuse/neglect/molestation is akin to the dinosaurs -- non-existant.

[franciscan.livejournal.com]

I am very pro-life, and believe in that path. This means respect for all life - of those who are empoverished, of women, of children, of other species. Pro-life, to me, is respecting the integrity and dignity of each being and recognizing that we are more than our bodies, more than our minds, and more than our feelings. It also means respecting the divinity within and each person's capacity to make responsible choices regarding one's body and spirit.

Any movement that claims to be protective of life and focuses on only one aspect of that life is sorely lacking. Most pro-lifers I have talked with state they are against abortions, but then also support war, economic violence - er - I mean free-market capitalism... etc.

I think if the "pro-choice" movement would go ahead and claim to be pro-life, then demonstrate the complete stance of being for life on this planet, it could de-rail a movement that at best is arrogant and ill-informed.

Abortion is hard. I have also talked with very many women who have had abortions and no one has ever said it is a done deal. As mothers and creatrixes, women have an awareness of the sacredness of the womb and so it is common for women to carry the woundedness for a longtime.

As shamanistic folks, we are invited to understand the soul loss that is possible with abortions, as in that time, the mother shares life essence with the developing being.

[greensh.livejournal.com]

As shamanistic folks, we are invited to understand the soul loss that is possible with abortions, as in that time, the mother shares life essence with the developing being.

This is an excellent point. Thank you for reminding me of this also. Does this also apply to women who cannot carry to full term? Are you aware of the Shaman acting as a healer for situations like this?

[(Anonymous)]

Not specifically, but in that case, I would journey to be shown why this is so. When I read your response, my first hunch was that it might be due to past life issues. But again, journeying would be the better option to see what is the difficulty. Soul loss does play into it.

[franciscan.livejournal.com]

That was me. Forgot to log in.