kokopelle: Horse Totem (Flute - Courting Flute)
[personal profile] kokopelle
I have a question for my fellow shamanists. Can you pursue your shamanic path without interacting with plastic shamans or becoming one yourself? The answer is not a simple one. Before you reply, consider the following information. This article is written in reference to the United States. I believe the concepts can be considered in other instances of tribal guardianship and cultural respect.

I found the following statements, made by sincere Native Americans, at the website http://www.geocities.com/ourredearth/plastic.html. I believe this states the conservative end of the plastic shaman discussion.
Do you think you are "Indian by heart" or were "an Indian in a past life?" Do you admire Native ways and want to incorporate them into your life and do "your own" version of a sweat lodge or a vision quest? Have you seen ads, books, and websites that offer to "train you to be come a shaman" in an easy number of steps, a few days on the weekend, or for a fee?

Have you really thought this all the way through? Have you thought about how native people feel about what you might want to do?

Please think about these important points before you take that fateful step and expend time, money, and emotional investment:
  • Native people DO NOT believe it is ethical to charge money for any ceremony or teaching.

  • Any who charge you even a penny are NOT authentic.

  • Native traditionalists believe the ONLY acceptable way to transmit traditional teachings is orally and face-to-face.

  • Any allegedly traditional teachings in books or on websites are NOT authentic.

  • Learning medicine ways takes decades and must be done with great caution and patience out of respect for the sacred.

  • Any offer to teach you all you need to know in a weekend seminar or two is wishful thinking at best, fraud at worst.

  • Most of these FRAUDULENT operators are not the slightest bit reputable.

  • Most of these FRAUDULENT operators have been caught making complete fantasies of what many whites WISH Natives were like.

I do see these as conservative statements. I am not saying that this view is the only view that Native Americans project. It is conservative though, and should be considered as a base-line possibility.

I am torn here. I would agree with these statements if there were a black-n-white concept of what a traditional teaching was. Sadly, I don't see this being the case. When the conservative views are fully embraced, the traditional teachings of the Native Americans would only be available in face-to-face encounters with tribal teachers. Is this a problem? The really fuzzy part is the hard definition of a traditional teaching. The Native traditions inherently vary from tribe to tribe. The influence of these very varied beliefs have been disseminated widely. While accurate traditional teachings are not available, the influence of the traditions have spread far from the Native cultures. People have gained much wisdom and insight from these sources. The published guidelines would rule out the books of Carlos Castaneda, Ted Andrews, Jamie Sams, Tom Brown and more. Any material, be it printed or electronic, would have to be neutered of all traditional influence. IMO, the remaining material would be wholly new-age, largely void of the animist (the belief that natural objects, natural phenomena, and the universe itself possess souls) roots of shamanism.

My questions are these... is it possible to be in full compliance with the wishes of the Native American website? Are they asking for the removal of all signs of traditional Native American influence from white shamanic lives? Consider if all of the books based on Native American beliefs were removed from the bookshelves, all of the white shamanic teachers vanished, and no shamanic-friendly websites were available (including this forum!). Where would the modern shamanist be? Would the modern, non-indigenous shamanic movement continue on? If we do not comply with the wishes of the website, are we all plastic in our ways, encouraging the propagation of plastic shamans? Does it benefit anybody if the modern expression of the shamanic path is eliminated?

I have no easy answers. What is your opinion?

Date: 2007-04-04 04:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] valkyriur.livejournal.com
My opinion...well, "shamanism" is the best way to term my belief system. I'm not taking anything from anybody that I'm aware of. Most of what I practice is what I have always done, even as a child. A lot of my practice is not shamanic, and those parts I don't call "shamanic". Honestly, I don't really know.

Date: 2007-04-04 06:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franciscan.livejournal.com
I think some of the info in that article is inaccurate. I was in the Navajo reservation for 5 years and I never met a medicine person that didn't receive payment for his or her work. Also, it is my understanding that Native Americans do not refer to their medicine people as shamans and the ones whom I have spoken with adamently insist that "shaman" is a term that does not apply.

I do think that weekend "getting in touch with your inner indian" is questionable. I do think, though, that we are all indigenous at some level and the current fascination with all things indian may simply be western culture's struggle to get in touch with that indigenous root.

Native Americans have so adapted western cultural norms (regardless of how they were exposed to them) and so I don't have any problem with Eorupeans exploring indigenous ways. I do draw the line when it comes to imitating ative American sacred rituals, but it seems that what ever brings us into a closer relationship with the land and earth-based understandings should be encouraged and supported.

The time for "us vs them" is far over. It belongs to a declining paradigm. We are evolving into a time of oneness and mutuality. Those who make a lot of money preying on folks searching and exploring will be found out and will lose whatever fame and prestige they have gained. Folks will be hurt in the meantime. But it is our personal resplonibility to see to it that our teachers are on the up and up.

Date: 2007-04-04 10:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] moonvoice.livejournal.com
*nods* The people who practice Tengerism, or Mongolian shamanism, also say that it is a lie that shamans don't accept some form of payment for their work.

However, I can understand the spirit of why those against nuage shamanism might list this, for those who practice traditional shamanism tend to be dead against charging for commercial courses etc. You cannot pay a shaman 10,000 and expect to be a 'shaman' at the end of it. All you can do is pay for the skills you learn, which do not make a proven shaman at the end of it.

So in that sense, indigenous shamans do not charge to make other people shamans within a set amount of time for a fixed fee, they accept payment and offerings so that they may continue to live and teach. One is very commercial, the other is more focused on lifestyle.

I really shouldn't respond to these after I've worked all day. Lol. Rambling abounds.

Date: 2007-04-04 11:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] greensh.livejournal.com
I fully agree that no amount of money can "make someone a shaman". Money well spent on books and classes can further a shamanist's understanding of the world, and their place in it, but there is no instant transformation to the role of shaman or Shaman.

For the Native teacher, I accept that payment is not given for the a person to "become a shaman". Payment is instead given so the teacher may continue to live and teach. If a non-Native teacher does not reveal tribal lore, specific to a tradition, can they not follow the same guidelines? The teachers I know, Native and non-Native, are not in it to get rich. There are better ways to accumulate wordly goods.

I would hope the wholesale message of "non-Native teachers are out to get rich" is a postitioning statement of reclamation. It is helpful to start discussions at conservative points and then move toward a more moderate position. However, to embrace a "all non-Native teachers do X" statement, as the stark reality of the world, dishonors those non-Native teachers who are both respecting tradition and seeking only to get by in the world while they share their heart-felt message.

I guess I am passionate about this because I feel the majority of non-Native teachers and authors have motivations of sharing and healing instead of $$$. Yes, there are some bad apples, and one bad apple can ruin the barrel, but (IMO!!!) vague global statements make the speaker look foolish and bring dishonor on the majority of those being addressed. Yes, there is a place for proper political posturing. Yes, the spiritual heritage of the Native people has been violated. But, a tit-for-tat continued spiritual violation of people, in this case a majority of non-Native teachers/authors, does not right the original wrongs. Like I said before, there are no easy answers here. IMO ramblings of my own...

I very much appreciate your rambling. Your views are very important to me.

Date: 2007-04-04 11:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] greensh.livejournal.com
Thank you for your words. I was hoping you would speak up, as I know you are one of those "non-Native" teachers that are doing good things. Your feedback provides a contrasting sanity check to the other well presented opinions. I fully agree with your last paragraph. I strive to embrace the oneness and mutuality. I suppose that is why I am exploring this topic and finding it to be distressful. LOL... I am sometimes a glutton for punishment. (smile)

Date: 2007-04-04 02:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sunfell.livejournal.com
I was taught that if I visited a holy person for services of any sort- including training, the polite (and expected) thing to do was to bring them groceries and craft items, including tobacco, fabric and notions. If that isn't payment for services, I don't know what is.

Date: 2007-04-04 01:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sunfell.livejournal.com
Can you pursue your shamanic path without interacting with plastic shamans or becoming one yourself?

Interesting question(s). I think that it is nearly impossible (unless you manage to do some sort of background check) to ascertain whether your teacher (shamanic or not) is 'plastic', fraudulent, or authentic. Yes, there are certain 'red flags' to look for, which are well covered, but sometimes they are not obvious until you've gained your own perceptive abilities. Most new students do not have this ability. Only (bitter) experience will bring that.

Which brings me to my own point: Are 'plastic' shamans and possibly fraudulent teachers actually harmful? Perhaps. It really depends on what you learn from them. One of my own teachers was later revealed to be a 'plastic' shaman, a "dime-store" Indian (even though she was full-blooded and enrolled). Her offense was teaching a mixture of Native American folkways and shamanistic techniques to non-Indian people, and even starting a 'rainbow' tribe called "Ocali Nations". She insisted on the face-to-face style of transmission (we could take notes), had us read books (which a couple are considered 'false' by the accusers), made us pay a fee for the six month course she taught, and put us through a sweatlodge and Naming Ceremony. I had no delusions that I was native in any way, but I learned a hell of a lot from her. I did not pursue any NA stuff afterwards, even though she told me that I could go to pow-wows and dance the Gourd dance for veterans. There was no way that Ms. White-n-Nerdy was going to put a foot into the ceremonial ring without an explicit invitation.

So, yeah, I've been taught by a 'plastic' Holy Woman. Or at least 'plastic' by purists standards. I learned some good, solid stuff from her, and another 'fraudulent' teacher years before. I believe that she had nothing but the best intent with what she was going, and I sincerely hope that Grandmother Selma is doing OK wherever she is (somewhere in the FL panhandle, I think...).

Purists have their own reasons for insisting on the purity of their ways, but to be honest, they are fighting a losing battle. There will always be degrees of purity, of authenticity. Those who are native born and who have a lineage of Holy People to work with are the core. And radiating out from that are progressively more dilute- and questionable- practices culminating in the true fraudster, the $2500 New Age 'Shaman in a Week' seminars at places like Sedona. Anyone who thinks that they can absorb a lifetime of experience in a week(end) is deluding themselves.

There is room in life for many experiences. The bottom line is this: what are you getting from it? If what you are learning is enriching your life and your spirit, the source isn't really all that important. As you gain experience and insight, you will learn to 'purify' your own stream of the Current, and sort the toxic from the beneficial. That is what life has to teach us. If it tosses a few frauds in the way, it just makes your BS detector that much better.

Date: 2007-04-04 02:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] greensh.livejournal.com
I really like your analogy of teachings radiating out from a purist core. The most fraudulent acts are, one would hope, on the far rings of this transference. IMO, the intervening rings should not be painted with brush as those far flung transgressors.

I've met my share of pseudo-authentic and non-Native shamanic teachers. My white-city-boy self had few other options. They have been incredibly transformative for me. I cannot, and will not, accept another person's statement that these dear people were invalid, fraudulent, and forgettable. As you clearly point out, life does not work this way. Thank you for that reminder!

Date: 2007-04-04 03:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lupini.livejournal.com
As usual, your questions come down to...it depends.

It depends on the definitions that a particular teacher/student/group is using. I know that to many Native American's *I* am a plastic shaman, because I'm disconnected from a direct line of traditions. :shrug: That is their right. And remember, most NA tribes don't identify with the term "shaman."

Traditional teachers would receive goods in trade for teachings and services--that is payment. If one only needed a consult, then bring some tobacco and some meat. If one wanted a steady teacher/student relationship, then one might have to do regular chores for the teacher (hauling water, wood, etc.). Our modern society doesn't always allow for such exchanges, and at that point, using currency acceptable.

Any time anyone makes an offer that you will be a "certified" whatever after one weekend...RUN THE OTHER DIRECTION. If, however, they are offering to teach you a, b, and c for $X, then try it out. Even if you only find a to be useful, you've learned something. Even someone stating "I'll make you a shaman for $19.99!" MIGHT have at least one teaching worth learning.

When it comes to cultural traditions, I try to be a good guest. Inspiration, not imitation. But honestly, DNA in my body has a heritage of being effected by the Spirits and energy of this land (North America), since the early 1700's (7 generations). What is often thought of as being Native American, in my mind, is often more North American--the teachings come from the land and spirits of place. The spirits and land taught the indigenous peoples the right was to interact with their place. If I journey to the local spirits asking for a ritual, chances are I'll get a ritual that some tribe could claim as belonging to them, because their ancestors DID THE SAME THING. I'm not going to apologize for that.

Date: 2007-04-04 03:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] greensh.livejournal.com
Kudos on mentioning the Spirits and energy of the land. I wrote something about this into the original blog, but then deleted the comments because I felt they muddied the already murky water.

In my case, I have great-great-great grandmother who was full Cherokee (probably). My grandmother was a Stewart. My father has been told that my grandmother's family were called "the dark people". Apparently the Scots intermarried with Native Americans who lived in the hills of Northern Alabama. Shame on me for not investigating the tribes who lived in that area. In some ways it does not matter. Is this matriarchal relation enough to make me anything? No. It, and a dollar thrown in, will get me a soda perhaps. All joking aside, I can't get on rolls or claim any "hard" heritage with my 1/16 (or less) Indian heritage. It does, however, (better) connect me with the land and the spirits of my region. This I feel in my soul. I guess I cannot apologize for this either.

Date: 2007-04-05 10:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franciscan.livejournal.com
"Any time anyone makes an offer that you will be a "certified" whatever after one weekend...RUN THE OTHER DIRECTION"

Amen...

There is a "movement" in the shamanic community to support certification to "legitimze" the practice so that it will gain respectability from western medicine prctitioners. I think this is a mistake, as there is no way to standardize a practice that is so individualized. How does one go about standardizing the Helping Spirits...?

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